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@Las Vegas

看看这段是否能回答你的问题。个人认为还有更深刻的原因，我还没想明白

dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时)
本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛QUESTION: Well, if you look at all the polls, can you help us understand why does President Bush have such overwhelming support here in the United States, seemingly, and such overwhelming opposition in the international community?

CHOMSKY: For one thing, he doesn't have overwhelming support from Americans. It's true that if you look at, say, the international Gallup polls -- which have not been reported in the United States, but they're very instructive -- they do show overwhelming opposition throughout Europe, Asia, Latin America particularly, all of Europe, in fact. And they do apparently show greater support in the United States and other English-speaking countries, higher in the United States than elsewhere.

But those figures are pretty misleading. Because there's another difference between the United States and the rest of the world. And one has to take that into account. Saddam Hussein is despised throughout the world, including the region. And everyone would like to see him disappear from the face of the earth. But there is only one country in which he's feared. And that's the United States. And that's, incidentally, since September. If you take a look at polls since the drumbeat of propaganda about Saddam being a threat to our existence it began in September. Since then on the order of two-thirds of the public in the United States does genuinely believe that if we don't stop him today he is going to kill us tomorrow.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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Last Updated: 2003-4-2
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  • 枫下茶话 / 社会 / 总算有良心未泯的politician站出来说点真话 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-1 {3006} (#1117957@0)
    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Kucinich Takes to The House Floor
    To Call For An End to The War

    Congressman Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH), who leads opposition to the War in Iraq within the House, today, issued the following statement on the House floor:



    “Stop the war now. As Baghdad will be encircled, this is the time to get the UN back in to inspect Baghdad and the rest of Iraq for biological and chemical weapons. Our troops should not have to be the ones who will find out, in combat, whether Iraq has such weapons. Why put our troops at greater risk? We could get the United Nations inspectors back in.



    “Stop the war now. Before we send our troops into house-to-house combat in Baghdad, a city of five million people. Before we ask our troops to take up the burden of shooting innocent civilians in the fog of war.



    “Stop the war now. This war has been advanced on lie upon lie. Iraq was not responsible for 9/11. Iraq was not responsible for any role al-Qaeda may have had in 9/11. Iraq was not responsible for the anthrax attacks on this country. Iraq did not tried to acquire nuclear weapons technology from Niger. This war is built on falsehood.



    “Stop the war now. We are not defending America in Iraq. Iraq did not attack this nation. Iraq has no ability to attack this nation. Each innocent civilian casualty represents a threat to America for years to come and will end up making our nation less safe. The seventy-five billion dollar supplemental needs to be challenged because each dime we spend on this war makes America less safe. Only international cooperation will help us meet the challenge of terrorism. After 9/11 all Americans remember we had the support and the sympathy of the world. Every nation was ready to be of assistance to the United States in meeting the challenge of terrorism. And yet, with this war, we have squandered the sympathy of the world. We have brought upon this nation the anger of the world. We need the cooperation of the world, to find the terrorists before they come to our shores.



    “Stop this war now. Seventy-five billion dollars more for war. Three-quarters of a trillion dollars for tax cuts, but no money for veterans’ benefits. Money for war. No money for health care in America, but money for war. No money for social security, but money for war. We have money to blow up bridges over the Tigris and the Euphrates, but no money to build bridges in our own cities. We have money to ruin the health of the Iraqi children, but no money to repair the health of our own children and our educational programs.



    “Stop this war now. It is wrong. It is illegal. It is unjust and it will come to no good for this country.



    “Stop this war now. Show our wisdom and our humanity, to be able to stop it, to bring back the United Nations into the process. Rescue this moment. Rescue this nation from a war that is wrong, that is unjust, that is immoral.



    “Stop this war now.”更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 英美分歧 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-1 (#1117975@0)
    • 政客做什么都有目的，别指望他们真有良心。 -rockywei(落基山); 2003-4-1 (#1117989@0)
      • 政客和人一样是多种多样的，既有尼克松，克林顿，也有卡特这样的老实人，有目的，有个人目的并不代表就是恶。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-1 (#1118229@0)
    • 按说都是些简单的道理, 怎么就会有70% 几的人支持打. 不明白. -uvw(怕死惜命); 2003-4-1 (#1117990@0)
      • 如果你假想一下自己膀大腰圆的滋味，你就理解美国人的态度了。 -ric102(ric); 2003-4-1 (#1118158@0)
    • 照这样说，二战前的张伯伦，达拉第之流都应该得诺贝尔和平奖了 -eglington(eglington); 2003-4-1 (#1118004@0)
    • Stop War 就是良心发现，Continue War 就是天良泯灭；判断良心的标准未免太简单了吧？还是一个英国议员说得好：“为什么许多人在这个时候站出来呐喊和平？ -jianghongca(慎独); 2003-4-1 {63} (#1118006@0)
      -------因为他们发现这是体现他们的道德比较高尚的最廉价的途经。”
      • 呵呵,有创意 -expertune(伪而不劣); 2003-4-1 (#1118027@0)
      • 呵呵 -rock_jack(In Between); 2003-4-1 (#1118197@0)
      • 从基督教的眼光看人人都是恶人，美国民主三权分立就是建立在人性本恶的基础之上，权力需要制衡。与其让一个恶人独断独行不如让几个恶人互相制衡接受监督更好。绝对权利产生绝对腐败。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-1 {122} (#1118240@0)
        美国通过军事手段在世界上聚敛财富的同时又搞世界经济一体化，其中最大的受害者就是欧洲。欧洲人反对当然不是只从道义角度出发的。
      • 不是因为他反战说他良心为抿，而是因为他说了真话。政客说谎几乎是天经地义的。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118326@0)
        • 既然“政客说慌是天经地义”的，你又如何确定他这次说的就是真话呢？是因为他说到了你的心坎里吗？还是因为他说的比较符合你的道德标准？ -jianghongca(慎独); 2003-4-2 {152} (#1118329@0)
          在说慌是天经地义的情况下说了真话就是良心未泯，
          那么在
          说真话是天经地义的情况下没有说真话就是天良泯灭了？

          好象可以理解为何总有人把傻大母奉若神明了。
          • 两回事，你进去看看他说的那句话不是真话？全世界的人都知道这场战争和“解放伊拉克人民”没有一点关系。前两天去论坛上一个网友给的连接。看看现在“解放”了的阿富汗：美国对此援助为零，翻翻当初“解放阿富汗人民”前的报纸 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118339@0)
        • 有些政治家还是有良知的，比如华盛顿，林肯。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-2 (#1118333@0)
          • 艾森豪威尔曾说，没有humanity的胜利不是胜利。这个Kucinich能在70%支持战争，国家利益高于一切的时候说出这样的话，良心未泯 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118341@0)
            • 你认为美国70%的人良心以泯？ -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118344@0)
              • 我认为70%当中的80%受媒体和政府的manipulation。如果他们有机会走出美国，不是仅仅从主流媒体获取对世界的看法，有be an outsider，那么会有更客观的看法，而不会全体人民在问“why do they hate us so much？” -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118346@0)
                • 美国人民就那么愚昧，那么容易受操纵，真不知道怎么就成就了世界第一强国，而且无数国家的人民怀着一个缥缈的美国梦来到这个国家。还有你，为什么走出中国来到北美，你想过这个问题吗？ -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118348@0)
                  • 试试每天看1个小时cnn，你会和大多数美国人保持统一看法。我来美国，追求的是美国精神，美国的自由和民主。现今政府不代表美国精神，不代表美国人民。之所以容易被manipulation是因为现在媒体高度集中，另一个原因， -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 {42} (#1118351@0)
                    fear让人失去判断力。见 Barry Glassner 的书
                    • 请问那一届美国政府代表美国精神？你满意的就是代表了？美国精神体现在美国的普通人的心里。 -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118356@0)
                      • 我在60天的camping trip，大部分时间在美国西部，感受到了美国精神（同时对印第安人历史有了更深刻的理解）；我在听ralph nader的总统竞选中感受到了美国精神；我在Noam Chomsky的著作中感受到了美国精神； -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 {222} (#1118360@0)
                        我在michael moore的作品中感受到了美国精神；我在体会欧洲人文历史，理解了一些美国精神；我在美国普通人自己掏钱维护constitutional rights中体会到了美国精神；我在艾森豪威尔在战争结束后对美国政治的担忧中体会到美国精神

                        不胜枚举
                        • 我就问你一个问题：这56%的美国人算不算是“美国人民”？他们身上有没有“美国精神”？ -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118363@0)
                          • 算，我为他们被媒体manipulation所控制感到遗憾，也觉得理解，因为一家两人一天花10个小时在工作上，晚上哪有时间频繁换台去寻找alternative voice -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118366@0)
                            • 不要总有“众人皆醉唯我独醒“的优越感，每个人的想法都是值得尊重的。 -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118367@0)
                              • 没有你所说的优越感，只有真相被掩盖的愤怒。operation Iraqi freedom是所有美国对外行动中名字起的最差的。it is a joke。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118371@0)
                                • It Is a joke. 这样想想，就不会生气了 : ) -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118375@0)
                                • 美国人的这套把戏，其实全世界哪个角落里又没有上演过呢。为什么愤怒呢？不能理解。你不会是才知道我们这些老百姓从来都是政客的棋子吧。 -akala(akala); 2003-4-2 (#1118376@0)
                                  • 因为如果连愤怒都没有，那就更没有反抗。那和独裁国家有什么不同。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118378@0)
                                    • 说得好，有道理。 -akala(akala); 2003-4-2 (#1118384@0)
                                  • 是啊，美国的行为的动机并不是因为美国民主或美国人也是人也富有正义感而变得比别的国家高尚。政治家为了他的政治目的代表美国作出的事不是你能和普通美国人民的善良想法对的上号的。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-2 (#1118385@0)
                                  • 我气愤是因为连表示一些不同的看法都有人出来说是伪君子。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-2 (#1118392@0)
                        • very funny. -akala(akala); 2003-4-2 (#1118364@0)
                • 还有你凭什么认为56%的美国人受别人操纵呢？每个人都跟你我一样有自己的观点自己的判断事物的方法，都不是受人摆布的木偶。 -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118350@0)
                  • 要说这个问题，那我们对比一下各自观点的来源。你列一下你看的所有书籍，经常看什么印刷媒体，什么电视台，什么电台，接触的人的观点是那类，然后我列给你我的单子。大家交换一下，看看是否on the same page -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118352@0)
                    • 以前不怎么看cnn, 但这些天总看。这是个有着强烈倾向性的电视台，但我还看CBC, CTV, MSNBC的报道，尤其是CBC的深度报道。我还看新浪、搜狐、新华网的报道。还有俄国新闻社的报道、BBC的报道，你还需要什么？ -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118359@0)
                      • 你说的这些海外媒体美国人民都看不到。美国虽然还有很多其他电视台，但是关心政治的人看的是什么台？ -angry(气愤); 2003-4-2 (#1118361@0)
                      • 你看这么多媒体的报道就能体会很多美国人只看cnn，那么对于这场战争的看法是什么了。 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118362@0)
                        • 我只想说一句，你不要把这56%的美国人当成只受CNN和美国政府摆布的傻子。别的就不想多说了。 -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118365@0)
                          • 咱俩还是想办法on the same page，一起看看这个如何？我现在正在读。也许我们可以谈谈对这篇文章的看法？ -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118368@0)
                            • 很抱歉，想玩的东西太多，白天上班，晚上玩，静不下心来看这些东西。: ) -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118373@0)
                              • 那就比较遗憾了。Noam Chomsky的东西很值得一看，有这样的学者存在，俄而且在美国为数不少，他们的声音能够存在，这就是美国宪法和美国精神最让人感到欣慰的地方 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118374@0)
                                • 美国从来不缺各种不同的声音。一段时间内某种思潮占了上风，是很正常的事情。还有，永远不要自认为只有某些人掌握了真理。 -seyou(色友); 2003-4-2 (#1118377@0)
                                  • 大多数时间真理在少数人手上。不敢自持真理在我手上，但是想花点时间找寻不同的声音，因为想听主流媒体太容易了，一按遥控就行了。这不，给你个连接，你都懒得看：） -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 (#1118380@0)
                          • 人性不只是有善也有恶，即便是能够独立思考的人，在自己利益和别人利益之间做出选择时作雷锋的毕竟是少数。特别是在你并不了解你为了获得自己利益对别人利益伤害是多么大时你的决定是否合适就值得疑问。 -angry(气愤); 2003-4-2 (#1118370@0)
                  • 看看这段是否能回答你的问题。个人认为还有更深刻的原因，我还没想明白 -dropoutinmiami(饺子--风在起时); 2003-4-2 {1464} (#1118389@0)
                    本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛QUESTION: Well, if you look at all the polls, can you help us understand why does President Bush have such overwhelming support here in the United States, seemingly, and such overwhelming opposition in the international community?

                    CHOMSKY: For one thing, he doesn't have overwhelming support from Americans. It's true that if you look at, say, the international Gallup polls -- which have not been reported in the United States, but they're very instructive -- they do show overwhelming opposition throughout Europe, Asia, Latin America particularly, all of Europe, in fact. And they do apparently show greater support in the United States and other English-speaking countries, higher in the United States than elsewhere.

                    But those figures are pretty misleading. Because there's another difference between the United States and the rest of the world. And one has to take that into account. Saddam Hussein is despised throughout the world, including the region. And everyone would like to see him disappear from the face of the earth. But there is only one country in which he's feared. And that's the United States. And that's, incidentally, since September. If you take a look at polls since the drumbeat of propaganda about Saddam being a threat to our existence it began in September. Since then on the order of two-thirds of the public in the United States does genuinely believe that if we don't stop him today he is going to kill us tomorrow.更多精彩文章及讨论，请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net

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