×

Loading...
Ad by
  • 最优利率和cashback可以申请特批,好信用好收入offer更好。请点链接扫码加微信咨询,Scotiabank -- Nick Zhang 6478812600。
Ad by
  • 最优利率和cashback可以申请特批,好信用好收入offer更好。请点链接扫码加微信咨询,Scotiabank -- Nick Zhang 6478812600。

所以我们见到太多的冷漠“机器'医生,都是这样的系统培训出来的,没有同情心,就只会读数据,那个Kyle视频留言里多少被医生往Depression这个坑里扔的例子,被Kyle遭遇激起共鸣。

其中有个兽医的回帖,看看原来现在兽医比医生更具同情心,更有Sense。

Amy Morris

2 days ago

When he mentioned the doctor telling him that he had a psychotic episode, I stopped in my tracks and my jaw dropped as I was listening to this video. I also flashed back to several years ago when a friend of mine had a similar problem at the ER. I am a veterinarian and I have a strong interest in neurology. I don't work on humans, but I know basic neurological symptoms when I see them. My vet tech and friend had been complaining of not feeling well recently, she was getting tired all the time and sometimes dizzy. She had a history of skin cancer but hadn't had any new lesions in years. She'd had a full workup with her doctor including a cardiac stress test and was told she was fine, maybe it was just stress. One day, I asked her to weigh the cat I was examining, the scale was on the table a foot away. She froze and said she couldn't. I asked why, thinking maybe she could feel the cat was getting upset and was concerned that moving him would make him more upset in that moment (most vet techs and assistants are good at reading stuff like that from our patients). Her eyes filled with tears and she said she didn't know how. She literally couldn't think to pick up the cat, move it a foot along the table, and onto the scale. I called someone else to take the cat and took her into my office for privacy. I knew she was under a lot of stress, and wanted her to take a few minutes to calm down. She was crying and shaking, she said she didn't know how to do anything. I asked her to look directly at me and touch her finger to her nose. She couldn't do it. I gave her a piece of paper and asked her to write her signature. She could do that. Again, I don't work on humans, but her ability to do something by muscle memory but not to do something that required actively processing the action sounded pretty neurologic to me. I called an ambulance. The EMTs were patronizing and told her it was probably stress, but agreed to take her to the hospital. The ER doctor was even more patronizing, and insisted she was either stressed or making things up to get attention (she was not that kind of person). She had to raise her voice and threaten to make a scene in the middle of the ER lobby if they didn't do an MRI. She said she had good insurance but even if she didn't, she'd pay for it out of pocket if she had to, but she wanted a brain MRI. Her father died of brain cancer, she had a family history. She had a history of malignant melanoma. They thought she was crazy for insisting she get an MRI. Until they reluctantly agreed to shut her up, and saw the scans. Multiple masses in her brain. Further scans showed masses in her lungs. About a year later, despite aggressive therapy, she was dead. She was maybe 30 years old. I'm not sharing her story to say "ER doctors are stupid and lazy and mean people" because I think the majority of them are not. And I don't work on humans so I can't comment on how they should be treated. But I do a lot of behavior work with animals. When a patient presents to me with a behavior problem, even if I'm 99% sure it's a behavioral problem (usually based on anxiety), I still do a full physical and neurologic exam, and I recommend bloodwork. Because a behavioral diagnosis for me is a diagnosis of exclusion. I rule out other medical reasons before I assume it's behavioral. I have treated significant spinal pain in young cats who appeared otherwise healthy but inexplicably aggressive with no warning at home, and the aggression resolved almost immediately with treatment. I had a young dog who attacked her housemate with no warning, and found she was hyperthyroid. That is an extremely rare conditions in dogs in general, and unheard of in a dog so young. Her owner had given her "organ meat jerky treats", and some of those organs included thyroid. As soon as he stopped giving her the treats, her levels returned to normal and her aggression problems ceased. It would have been easy to write these cases off as behavioral or psychological, and I would have missed the underlying problems. I know ERs are busy even when there isn't a pandemic. But to write someone off with psychological problems without doing a single thing to rule out an underlying cause is incomprehensible to me. I hope Kyle's story and my friend's story encourage you to advocate for your own medical care, and speak up if you are concerned something isn't being addressed. I tell my clients that if any doctor, veterinarian or MD, is offended by you asking for a second opinion, it probably means you should be getting one!

Report

Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下家园 / 医药保健 / 肉聯裡對醫學有興趣的很多,提出來的理論也很多,只要不傷害人,都不能算錯,不過,如果要醫生完全聴從病患的病述,只要上過醫學院一年級課的,大概都知道這是不合理的外行話,為什麼?這類公開的研究報告多的不勝枚舉,有興趣的肉友可以自己上網研究,先拿一篇CMAJ的文章開頭 +4
    Many patients lie or withhold medically important information from their doctors, studies show. But their reasons for doing so suggest that doctors could do more to earn their confidence. In two recent national surveys of 4510 Americans, 60%–80% admitted they had not been forthcoming with doctors
    • 肉联就经常看到有人教唆网友夸大病情去ER看病,滥用资源不说还有可能害人。 +2
    • 中医能望闻切而不问。西医只相信仪器,问了也是白问 +3
    • 医生都是over rated,特别是家庭医生,完全可以由电脑程序取代。 +6
      • 这是最无厘头的观点。 其实不用AI, 上网狗一下, 啥病都有描述, 根本不用去看医生。对着病症自己给自己开药, 多好。
        • 上网狗一下, 自己做决断;AI可以融合理论和无数的医生的经验,做出诊断。怎么比?
          • 做出这个程序不难, 无非是把现有的医学知识都记录在程序里,加上一些医学上的判断,记忆力决对高过人类太多。请问程序在哪里, 哪怕是初级的也可以。
            • 程序有很多,我记得IBM就搞过一个,代替一般家庭医生是非常可能的,问题在行业协会和一些法律问题,这是柳叶刀的一篇论文,做了AI和医生的比较, 结论是AI just as good at diagnosing illness as humans
              Deep learning offers considerable promise for medical diagnostics. We aimed to evaluate the diagnostic accuracy of deep learning algorithms versus hea…
              • 这种类似的说法太多了。搞这方面研究或工作的人当然要画出大饼, 就像人类说核聚变技术50年后就成熟了(永远都是50年)。 其实人类工作中, 比医生简单的劳动太多了, 到现在有多少工作被取代了, 说几样普通大众能感受到的
                • 诊断病症是AI学习里相对来说比较容易的应用哈,围棋都赢了高手了,那才是难点儿的
                  • 请举出几样已经被AI取代的工作, 最简单的拧螺丝的工作也可以
                    • 现在的围棋高手不都是和机器练了,国际象棋,中国象棋和网上的程序下更普遍了, 旅馆内部送餐, 汽车生产线, 仓库点货, parking, call certer啥的
                      • 你这里绝大多数都是一些新机器,
                        新设备使人工作减轻压力, 提高劳动效率等的例子, 这个在人类几千年文明中一直都存在并且不断进步的。 AI是人工智能代替人的智力进行工作, 并让人失去工作。比如, call center AI能代替人工为顾客服务。 我能感受到call center 中与AI有关的进步是AI能识别我的声音,从而简化了security check.
                    • car manufacturer uses robot for welding for 40+ years.
                • 这个不是做不出,医生阻力太大,就像TTC,地铁站还坐着个买票的。我觉得可以想赌博网站一样做个off-shore网站看病,开药,不过做不到免费医疗的加拿大人的生意。
      • 非常同意,可以省了很多医疗资源的浪费
      • 最希望AI 取代的就是医生和律师/法官,这两个行业都是依靠病例/案例找方案,目前tongzAI的语言理解能力还不完整,不过会有一天AI统治人类,因为AI没有感情,没有利益,能够更公正
    • 我没学过医,就记得曾经在加拿大上过一门和医擦边的课,就记住了教授说的一句话。如果一个病人来说头痛,即使医生看不出来(当然看不出来),那也得认定病人说的。 +2
      • 我以为这是最基本的做医生的素质。因为查不出来就否定患者的病情。这就是渎职。可惜他们可以躲在条例后面。除了患者,谁也不用负责。 +3
      • 相信病人没有说谎,但是要考虑病人智商和心理健康,他说的头痛不一定是真的头痛😂 有时病人真会很无助,因为没有医生相信他的话。有个很有名的例子,一个美国年轻女子,忽然出了消化问题,做了无数检查找不出来病因 +3
        所有医生都认为她没吃够量,厌食,即使她坚持说自己吃了很多。最后快要饿死了,勉强去看了个新医生,新医生相信了她,最后诊断是面筋过敏,才得救了。
    • 所以我们见到太多的冷漠“机器'医生,都是这样的系统培训出来的,没有同情心,就只会读数据,那个Kyle视频留言里多少被医生往Depression这个坑里扔的例子,被Kyle遭遇激起共鸣。 +8

      其中有个兽医的回帖,看看原来现在兽医比医生更具同情心,更有Sense。

      Amy Morris

      2 days ago

      When he mentioned the doctor telling him that he had a psychotic episode, I stopped in my tracks and my jaw dropped as I was listening to this video. I also flashed back to several years ago when a friend of mine had a similar problem at the ER. I am a veterinarian and I have a strong interest in neurology. I don't work on humans, but I know basic neurological symptoms when I see them. My vet tech and friend had been complaining of not feeling well recently, she was getting tired all the time and sometimes dizzy. She had a history of skin cancer but hadn't had any new lesions in years. She'd had a full workup with her doctor including a cardiac stress test and was told she was fine, maybe it was just stress. One day, I asked her to weigh the cat I was examining, the scale was on the table a foot away. She froze and said she couldn't. I asked why, thinking maybe she could feel the cat was getting upset and was concerned that moving him would make him more upset in that moment (most vet techs and assistants are good at reading stuff like that from our patients). Her eyes filled with tears and she said she didn't know how. She literally couldn't think to pick up the cat, move it a foot along the table, and onto the scale. I called someone else to take the cat and took her into my office for privacy. I knew she was under a lot of stress, and wanted her to take a few minutes to calm down. She was crying and shaking, she said she didn't know how to do anything. I asked her to look directly at me and touch her finger to her nose. She couldn't do it. I gave her a piece of paper and asked her to write her signature. She could do that. Again, I don't work on humans, but her ability to do something by muscle memory but not to do something that required actively processing the action sounded pretty neurologic to me. I called an ambulance. The EMTs were patronizing and told her it was probably stress, but agreed to take her to the hospital. The ER doctor was even more patronizing, and insisted she was either stressed or making things up to get attention (she was not that kind of person). She had to raise her voice and threaten to make a scene in the middle of the ER lobby if they didn't do an MRI. She said she had good insurance but even if she didn't, she'd pay for it out of pocket if she had to, but she wanted a brain MRI. Her father died of brain cancer, she had a family history. She had a history of malignant melanoma. They thought she was crazy for insisting she get an MRI. Until they reluctantly agreed to shut her up, and saw the scans. Multiple masses in her brain. Further scans showed masses in her lungs. About a year later, despite aggressive therapy, she was dead. She was maybe 30 years old. I'm not sharing her story to say "ER doctors are stupid and lazy and mean people" because I think the majority of them are not. And I don't work on humans so I can't comment on how they should be treated. But I do a lot of behavior work with animals. When a patient presents to me with a behavior problem, even if I'm 99% sure it's a behavioral problem (usually based on anxiety), I still do a full physical and neurologic exam, and I recommend bloodwork. Because a behavioral diagnosis for me is a diagnosis of exclusion. I rule out other medical reasons before I assume it's behavioral. I have treated significant spinal pain in young cats who appeared otherwise healthy but inexplicably aggressive with no warning at home, and the aggression resolved almost immediately with treatment. I had a young dog who attacked her housemate with no warning, and found she was hyperthyroid. That is an extremely rare conditions in dogs in general, and unheard of in a dog so young. Her owner had given her "organ meat jerky treats", and some of those organs included thyroid. As soon as he stopped giving her the treats, her levels returned to normal and her aggression problems ceased. It would have been easy to write these cases off as behavioral or psychological, and I would have missed the underlying problems. I know ERs are busy even when there isn't a pandemic. But to write someone off with psychological problems without doing a single thing to rule out an underlying cause is incomprehensible to me. I hope Kyle's story and my friend's story encourage you to advocate for your own medical care, and speak up if you are concerned something isn't being addressed. I tell my clients that if any doctor, veterinarian or MD, is offended by you asking for a second opinion, it probably means you should be getting one!

    • Patients don’t lie, However doctors lie to patients all the time. And right now, doctors follow government guidance to lie and patients get hurt badly. +6