I think we are talking about different thing. We are just vaccine hesitator,not anti vaxx, we heard the narrative about how good the vaccine is , but so far every prediction of the vaccine has failed the expectation.

newvest1(新衣)

Mask back on, still following social distance, infection cases flutured and expected to rise, therefore booster shots on the horizon, everything pointed that this is still an experiment , the strategy constant changes to suit the ongoing situation. So I am not sure which part of disinformation you are referring to?

As for IVM, we are discussing this drug in this board, simply trying to help each other to know there are alternative exists, and many doctors and scientists have endorsed the use of IVM despite goverment against it, not trying to gain any support from anyone who do not want to do a duel diligence on their own, only try to help each other in this unprecedented time, when many of us felt the goverment is no longer on the civilian side. Although ,regardless you believe in this drug or not, we should all support medical freedom, don't we?

(#14078126@0)
Last Updated: 2021-10-30
This post has been archived. It cannot be replied.

I only have one question for you. Why all the countries make such an extensive effort trying to block a medicine which they claim does nothing to cure covid19, -newvest1(新衣); 2021-10-30 {247} (#14077710@0) +15

and we all know it is proven not harmful to people and very cheap as well? People try many things themselves such as drinking green tea ,taking VC which probably does nothing to cure covid as well, why no countries trying to block those stuff?

you ask too much questions. All pro-vaxx knows that you are suppose to just listen, and take whatever they say is "safe & effective". Anyone challenge this will be just selfish, antivaxxer, and low intelligent. They want slaves, not indepednet thinker. -headbig(Let's Rock！); 2021-10-30 (#14077739@0) +12

Alright then, time to shut up and just listen. 😅 -newvest1(新衣); 2021-10-30 (#14077791@0) +2

好问题。一针见血 -nazacalines(游戏改变者); 2021-10-30 (#14077939@0)
As a vaccine supporter, -micah(mica); 2021-10-30 {466} (#14078079@0) +2
I actually don’t care if you use IVM or not. If you are able to get IVM, use it all you want. What I am against is the misinformation about vaccine. And don’t get me wrong. Vaccine is effective. But it is not enough to rely on vaccine itself to end the pandemic. Public health measures matter. Medicines matter. If you show me solid evidence, I will support IVM. But don’t just tell me you have heard nothing but good things about IVM. Show me good quality data.

I think we are talking about different thing. We are just vaccine hesitator,not anti vaxx, we heard the narrative about how good the vaccine is , but so far every prediction of the vaccine has failed the expectation. -newvest1(新衣); 2021-10-30 {877} (#14078126@0) +7
Mask back on, still following social distance, infection cases flutured and expected to rise, therefore booster shots on the horizon, everything pointed that this is still an experiment , the strategy constant changes to suit the ongoing situation. So I am not sure which part of disinformation you are referring to?
As for IVM, we are discussing this drug in this board, simply trying to help each other to know there are alternative exists, and many doctors and scientists have endorsed the use of IVM despite goverment against it, not trying to gain any support from anyone who do not want to do a duel diligence on their own, only try to help each other in this unprecedented time, when many of us felt the goverment is no longer on the civilian side. Although ,regardless you believe in this drug or not, we should all support medical freedom, don't we?

very well said!!! -headbig(Let's Rock！); 2021-10-30 (#14078131@0) +1
The good narrative about vaccine was likely originated from the trials of PFE and MRNA. BUT if you read the trial results, -micah(mica); 2021-10-31 {844} (#14078158@0)
you should know that there was no evidence at all that they will prevent asymptomatic infections. And scientifc community was not shy about this and have openly communicated this information. But the vaccines were very effective to prevent symptomatic infection, hospitalization, and deaths in the face of the original alpha variant. Time has changed. Now we have more variants. While the effectiveness still largely stands against the delta strain, it looks very likely some new resistant variant will inevitably emerge. This is expected. Also, From the beginning I don’t recall the scientific community made any promise or predictions to end the pandemic solely by the vaccines themselves. Any cool headed person should tell you that vaccine is not perfect. But unfortunately or fortunately it’s probably the best available weapon we have.

为何“支持疫苗的”，就一定要反对IVM? 这是个很奇怪的现象，就好比支持流感疫苗的，拼命反对泰诺一样令人费解。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077731@0) +18

只是医生不允许拿病人作实验，IVM 允许用干批准的临床实验。只是无可靠的临床实验证明其有效，药物总有副作用 -xiangqian(xiangqian); 2021-10-30 (#14077787@0)

那我更不明白了，瑞德西韦，现在是美国住院标配药物，副作用很大，为何本坛疫苗爱好者没有人写文章反对呢？“世卫组织建议不要在COVID-19患者中使用瑞德西韦”。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 {713} (#14077805@0) +3

世卫组织发布了一项有条件的建议，反对在住院患者中使用瑞得西韦，无论疾病严重程度如何，因为目前没有证据表明瑞得西韦能改善这些患者的存活率和其他结果。

Full Story:
https://www.who.int/zh/news-room/feature-stories/detail/who-recommends-against-the-use-of-remdesivir-in-covid-19-patients

FDA批了，世卫组织是什么？ -xiangqian(xiangqian); 2021-10-30 (#14077846@0)

世卫组织是专业机构，FDA是政府机构，FDA未必比世卫更专业。世卫的很多专业建议，是各国重要的参考依据，瑞德西韦也就在美国普遍，别的国家也用得不多。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077859@0) +1

同样是WHO都不建议使用的药物，所谓“无可靠的临床实验证明其有效”，副作用很大的瑞德西韦还在普遍使用，很难获得的伊维菌素几乎消声觅迹。可是，业余的疫苗爱好者对伊维菌素那是切齿之恨，不共戴天呀。对瑞德西韦却视而不见，匪夷所思呀。这不是一种正常的人类行为呀。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077849@0) +6

伊维菌素是处方药，不是禁药，WHO只能建议，各国对药物监管。反疫苗的才是神药爱好者，加拿大近90%成人己打疫苗。 -xiangqian(xiangqian); 2021-10-30 (#14077877@0) +1

因为泰诺是正式批准、广泛使用的治疗感冒的药物？ -897102(肉俩不良帅); 2021-10-30 (#14077789@0)
因为一般你如是说都被理解为支持政府和疫苗媒体巨头的强权强推，你可以说你“接受”疫苗 -scar(Scar); 2021-10-31 (#14078230@0)

这种文章也就能糊弄一下对IVM一无所知的人，作者从30个实验中找到5个有问题的，然后断定所有实验都是有问题的。他的理由是，如果30辆车子里有5辆上路就爆炸，那最好不要坐了。这样的人来搞科学，那科学就是个笑话。 -blueskygg(Grass); 2021-10-30 (#14077781@0) +12

这办法不正是反疫苗人士的逻辑吗？忽略统计数字，拿个例来证明疫苗无效或者疫苗有严重副作用。 -897102(肉俩不良帅); 2021-10-30 (#14077796@0) +5

看统计数字的话，没有疫苗时新加坡是世界抗疫模范，疫苗接种率达84%时，新加坡成了疫情重灾区。这个证明疫苗是有效还是无效呢? -blueskygg(Grass); 2021-10-30 (#14077891@0) +5

有效无效要看打不打疫苗的比较。高接种率却成为重灾区，应该检讨是不是过度依赖疫苗而忽略了其他的防疫措施。 -897102(肉俩不良帅); 2021-10-30 (#14077898@0)

不是吧，不是号称“疫苗是终结疫情的唯一手段吗”？疫苗不能“依赖”？那你别叫“疫苗”唬人呀。你可以叫“智商测试剂-c19”啥的嘛。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077917@0) +5

谁号称的？我这个疫苗派不记得见过。 -897102(肉俩不良帅); 2021-10-30 (#14077923@0)

那你们到底相不相信疫苗能终结病毒大流行？看你们每天发的最多的就是疫苗在祸害人类，请回答人类应该研究疫苗来对付新冠吗？这是根本问题，然后才衍生到政府是不是应该强制。 -winterfish(潜水鱼(\ (•◡•) /)); 10-25 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077954@0) +2

这是个人观点，总不能让我为他背书吧？ -897102(肉俩不良帅); 2021-10-30 (#14077959@0)

我没说你，但是，很多一苗爱好者都有这个朴素的信念。 -lovedrive(深蓝爷爷); 2021-10-30 (#14077974@0)

1不让用别的药 2不打这几个苗开除、没说不吃药开除 3 有疫苗护照刻没有其它的“护照” 4大子媒体反疫苗的是阴谋论要被删被封等等、强权已经不是裸奔，恨不得扒皮而奔 -scar(Scar); 2021-10-31 (#14078250@0) +6

我上次发了一个帖子问为什么反对疫苗的人总是发帖， -canewlife(canewlife); 2021-10-30 {336} (#14078085@0) +5

而支持疫苗的人只是偶尔跟帖，就被贴上了“疫苗支持者”的标签，可能我对这个论坛不熟悉，那个帖子好像已经不见了。今天分享了一篇关于 Ivermectin 的文章，又被贴上了 “Ivermectin 反对者”的标签。不过我是认为现在能全面开放，是疫苗起了决定性的作用，特别是看到职业篮球，冰球赛几万人的体育馆座无虚席的震撼场面，更是觉得如果没有疫苗，是不可能做到的。

说接受；当然了，谁被害谁喊疼啊 -scar(Scar); 2021-10-31 (#14078256@0) +2
所以那个冰球爱好者一家子都染上新冠，然后老爷子……，所以我们应该感谢疫苗，让社会恢复了正常？这是你要表达的么！ -evelyn123(Eva); 2021-10-31 (#14078277@0) +6
很多疫苗接种率很低的国家比如墨西哥早就开放了，是疫苗的功劳吗？接种率达84%的新加坡疫情大爆发，也是疫苗的功劳吧？ -blueskygg(Grass); 2021-10-31 (#14078489@0) +3

@Las Vegas

I think we are talking about different thing. We are just vaccine hesitator,not anti vaxx, we heard the narrative about how good the vaccine is , but so far every prediction of the vaccine has failed the expectation.

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