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今天下午开车听新闻,CBC 99.1,

应该是采访一位ICU医生 (不知道具体哪家医院,哪位医生,因为没有从开始听),说前几个月都很好,只是最近突然多很多covid 19病人,大部分是没打疫苗的症状比较严重。也多了很多打两针的,但症状基本就像感冒一样。不想说什么“covid 19专制不服”之类的话,反正打针不打针,都小心点

下面是网上找到的疫苗的解释,各位专家给评评(credit - atomfullerene at reddit)

Immunity isn't quite as specific as you are probably imagining it to be. When you get a vaccine, your body makes a bunch of antibodies that respond to the antigen (in this case, the spike protein). These antibodies come in a large variety of forms that are all a bit different from each other. What they share is that they stick to the spike protein, but they stick to different parts of it and they have different levels of "stickiness".

Shortly after vaccination, your antibody levels get very high. Then they naturally decrease over time...this is a normal process and not just a thing related to covid vaccines. However, the cells that make the antibodies stick around, and if you get a booster they are activated again and start dividing and pumping out more antibodies. A sort of refining process also goes on after boosters, where antibodies that stick better to the spike protein get selected for, so the quality of antibodies goes up after another vaccine dose.

So how does this relate to vaccines and Omicron? Well, to fully stop an infection from happening you have to have enough neutralizing antibodies (the ones that stick well and block off the spike) in your blood to stick to the virus and prevent it from getting a foothold. Omicron has a slightly different version of the spike protein, so on average the antibodies produced by the vaccine seem to stick to it less well than to the original spike. But it's not an either-or thing, remember there are lots of different antibodies. Some stick to parts of the spike protein that haven't been modified. Some still stick, but are slightly less sticky.

What this means is that you can get a situation where, if you haven't had a booster you might not have enough antibodies that will stick to "omicron spike" to give you protection, even if you might have enough that would stick to "delta spike" that would give you protection. But if you just got a booster, you will a) have many many more antibodies circulating in your blood and b) they will probably be higher quality, so you now might well have enough sticky ones to protect you from "omicron spike" and prevent you from getting infected.

Of course if you do get infected your body has other defense mechanisms besides circulating antibodies. But someone else can talk about that.

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Replies, comments and Discussions:

  • 枫下家园 / 医药保健 / 今天下午开车听新闻,CBC 99.1, +2

    应该是采访一位ICU医生 (不知道具体哪家医院,哪位医生,因为没有从开始听),说前几个月都很好,只是最近突然多很多covid 19病人,大部分是没打疫苗的症状比较严重。也多了很多打两针的,但症状基本就像感冒一样。不想说什么“covid 19专制不服”之类的话,反正打针不打针,都小心点

    下面是网上找到的疫苗的解释,各位专家给评评(credit - atomfullerene at reddit)

    Immunity isn't quite as specific as you are probably imagining it to be. When you get a vaccine, your body makes a bunch of antibodies that respond to the antigen (in this case, the spike protein). These antibodies come in a large variety of forms that are all a bit different from each other. What they share is that they stick to the spike protein, but they stick to different parts of it and they have different levels of "stickiness".

    Shortly after vaccination, your antibody levels get very high. Then they naturally decrease over time...this is a normal process and not just a thing related to covid vaccines. However, the cells that make the antibodies stick around, and if you get a booster they are activated again and start dividing and pumping out more antibodies. A sort of refining process also goes on after boosters, where antibodies that stick better to the spike protein get selected for, so the quality of antibodies goes up after another vaccine dose.

    So how does this relate to vaccines and Omicron? Well, to fully stop an infection from happening you have to have enough neutralizing antibodies (the ones that stick well and block off the spike) in your blood to stick to the virus and prevent it from getting a foothold. Omicron has a slightly different version of the spike protein, so on average the antibodies produced by the vaccine seem to stick to it less well than to the original spike. But it's not an either-or thing, remember there are lots of different antibodies. Some stick to parts of the spike protein that haven't been modified. Some still stick, but are slightly less sticky.

    What this means is that you can get a situation where, if you haven't had a booster you might not have enough antibodies that will stick to "omicron spike" to give you protection, even if you might have enough that would stick to "delta spike" that would give you protection. But if you just got a booster, you will a) have many many more antibodies circulating in your blood and b) they will probably be higher quality, so you now might well have enough sticky ones to protect you from "omicron spike" and prevent you from getting infected.

    Of course if you do get infected your body has other defense mechanisms besides circulating antibodies. But someone else can talk about that.

    • ICU 医生怎么知道打了两针的症状都很轻,到ICU 的都是症状严重的,不然也去不到他那儿 +6
      • 可能是个大全场的医生,到处客串 +4
      • ICU医生也要学习研究新证据和新数据的。
    • 症状基本就像感冒一样的话,根本不可能进医院,更不要说ICU了。 +7
    • 安省ICU的数字是公开的,看看是不是“最近多了很多”。 +6
      • 差别不大 +3
        Graphs and tables showing our progress on getting the COVID-19 vaccine to Ontarians. Due to technical difficulties, the case rate by vaccination status by age group is not available
        • 这就对了,打针的重症少,不会冲击ICU
    • 南非住院率下降
    • CBC说的,还不如神经病的胡说八道靠谱呢,后者起码是真诚的 -itwriting(halfpercent); 12-6 - +18
    • 鼓吹ADE的太失望了😮‍💨 +8
      • CBC说的,还不如。。。。。。。。 +3
        • ICU的数字在那摆着呢,当然对于缺乏分析能力的人来说是看不出联系,无法判断内容本身的可靠性,只能简单地trash 某个媒体。 +1
          • 不是trash一个媒体,是trash一个trash +7
      • 那些天天鼓吹ADE的其实连ADE是啥都不清楚,对于这些不懂装懂的我都懒得搭理。 +5
    • 跟个感冒似的,见到了ICU的医生,谁不干正事?! +2
    • 那段英文booster解释其实就是说,打3针整更多抗体才能对付O。为啥啊?因为抗体不对路,只好靠数量取胜了。不过,再胜也是短期的。抗体不会永远维持那么高水平,我发个预言,估计1.5月就不行了。 +4
      • 抗体只反映了部分免疫机制:体液免疫。疫苗抗疫包括1.体液免疫 2.细胞免疫,后者持续长久,甚至细胞记忆终生,但反应慢,需7到10天,这是为啥抗体下降但疫苗仍能防止重症的原因 -viewing(viewing); 05:49 {1290} (#14194889@0) +2
        • 被疫苗打死的人不时出现,打了又得新冠病死的也有,难道这就是传说中的防重症? +3
          • 科学统计数据表明,疫苗是防重症的。而阴谋论患者喜欢搞一些不具统计意义的数据或者干脆歪曲解释数据。 +2
            • 为什么不同意见的就是阴谋论呢?没感觉福气哥谭姐姐有多科学呀 +5
              • 阴谋论患者愿意相信阴谋论,能被煞有介事的诸如 “美国人登月是假的”,“美国911撞楼事件是美国政府策划的” 的阴谋论所蒙骗,但阴谋论经受不住科学:既登不了严肃科学期刊,也不能被科学同行验证。 +2
                • 哈哈哈,什么叫天真?这就叫天真,还挺可爱的 +3
            • 你忽略了最重要的一点,具有统计意义的数据只有政府有,而政府的数据有没有猫腻,平民百姓只能靠比较各个政府间的数据来推断。加拿大的数据吧,显示了其特殊性。 +3
    • 关键在最后一句: 除了抗体 “your body has other defense mechanisms”。抗体只反映了部分免疫机制:体液免疫。疫苗抗疫包括1.体液免疫 2.细胞免疫,后者持续长久,甚至细胞记忆终生,但反应慢,需7到10天,这是为啥抗体下降但疫苗仍能防止重症的原因 +3

      帮助科普的一些资料:

      “感染新冠后患者抗体下降,但细胞免疫保护持续”:https://news.sciencenet.cn/htmlpaper/2021/8/2021861454827465544.shtm

      “T细胞作用比抗体大”:​​​​​​​https://www.chinanews.com.cn/sh/2020/09-18/9293780.shtml

      英文科普:“抗体只是你的第一道防线”, “但我们有T细胞来产生免疫反应”

      "Antibodies are your first line of defense," Wherry said. "But we have other cells that can recognize the virus in completely different ways. In particular, there are two types of so-called T cells that are designed to wait for them to detect foreign invaders. One type, known as helper T cells, coordinates the body’s various immune responses. "

      https://newsnetdaily.com/why-scientists-rely-on-the-memory-of-the-immune-system/

      • 这么免疫了还打什么第三针第四针的干嘛呢?是为了消灭库存? +3
        • 抗体体液免疫是第一道防线,反应快,是防止感染的。细胞免疫更起到第二道防线作用,感染后防重症。加强针有助于增强抗体,即加强第一道防线:减少感染。 +2
          • 反正也不得重症,感染一点没事的感冒怕什么呢,非得不停地扎针下去,哪一针出点副作用可如何是好呀?😂 +5
      • 花大篇幅天花乱坠一番然后一句点精?又领教"科学"的高深。给说说,为啥2针没细胞免疫3针就突然有了? +3
    • 防重症吗,这个怎么解释? Report: The Fully Vaccinated Account for 81% of the COVID Deaths in the UK (#14142709@0) +4
      • 那是一个专发假消息的网站。The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right fake news website.[1] The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories. +3
        • 党中央给定的性?😂 +5
          • 阴谋论患者愿意相信阴谋论,能被煞有介事的诸如 “美国人登月是假的”,“美国911撞楼事件是美国政府策划的” 的阴谋论所蒙骗,但阴谋论经受不住科学:既登不了严肃科学期刊,也不能被科学同行验证。 -viewing(viewing); 08:35 (#14195025@0)