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我为什么不买UNIVERSAL LIFE?(续)

本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛各位大虾,感谢诸位的返馈与参与,没想到这个话题能引起如此强烈的讨论,理不辩不明吗。现在我对提出来的有些事项阐述我的观点,总结陈词。

pro提出了收入税和遗产税的问题,认为到老了总有些积蓄,交高额的遗产税不太合适。关于收入税,你还是先充分利用RRSP吧,它的本金都是税前的,更不用说利息了;如果你没有工作,也不想工作,但就是有钱(带过来的),当然也就没有RRSP空间,这就令当别论;关于遗产税,我不知道怎么个交法,但我的文章主要是针对穷人的,穷人大概不会有太多的留给后代,后边有好多文章讲养老要多少多少才够,要买UL来养老,总觉得钱不够用,所以我不知道把你们当成有钱人还是穷人,遗产我想还是算了吧,尤其是我们这些闯荡的第一代,再说留大笔钱给孩子也不见得是好事,不过买RESP帮孩子读书还是不错的。

pro还讲:实在钱少,家庭主要成员买Term, 有工作,少买一些UL,Term补充。这个有工作是什么意思呢,可以有几种理解:1:刚来加拿大,过一段时间就找到工作了;2:工作今天有了,明天就没了,后天又有了,加拿大不就是这样吗;3:工作了,由于种种原因,以后不工作了(比如退休)。如果是第一种情况,不要说不买UL,连TERM都没必要买;如果是第二种情况,工作频繁的变,保险可不能这样频繁的变,还是把你当成有工作的考虑吧,即你是属于穷人还是富豪;第三种情况和第一种的结论一样,你不需要任何保险,没的可保。

albert yang写的真多,大部头著作,花力气了,非常感谢,尽管你是业内人士,但我还是要向你提出挑战。

albert yang说 TERM现在(20或30岁)是好的选择,保15万的月费17元,最大的缺点是65岁时RENEW的月费接近250元。我说 albert yang,你给的这些数字真够吓人的,翻出我的保单,我发现了如下的差别,我的年龄比你设定的大得多(40),保20万的月费是22元,还包括伤残的waiver,70-80岁时的月费是180元。这个年龄以后我没有特殊需要就不会买任何保险了。差别实在太大,你还是好好回顾你的数字吧,我们真的很胆小,经不起吓唬,还是你代理的CLARICA保险公司就这个数字,幸亏我没买此公司的,感谢上帝。

albert yang还说,人过世了需要2-2。5万的安葬费和被保人法律手续费,再加上通货膨胀,得6。5万到8万。哈哈,又是一个用解决意外的手段解决意内的实例,同时够讲排场的,比活着的时候排场多了,甚至年富力强的青壮年时也没这么潇洒过,我还是选择别死了,好死不如赖活着。我怎么有个概念,平均一般的安葬费5-6千元,如果这个年龄没买任何保险,我自然就没有你所说的被保人法律手续费之类了。

albert yang又说,部分钱是保险,其余就去投资了。老生常谈,总是这道科,还记得我在原文里讲的保险成本吗,如果UL和TERM的可比成本一样,我何乐而不用它的优势呢,就是它的劣势大于它的优势,我才建议穷人只买TERM。比如保险应当20元,你让我交60元,拿40元去投资,当然是好事,可你硬说成本是40元,只留给我20元去投资,你就投资投资的说个没完没了,弄的大家云里雾里的就跟你走了。

albert yang也有说对的时候,他让我每年审查回顾自己的保险事项,谢谢你,我会做的,如果我的情况发生变化,我会进行必要的调整。另外, albert yang让我相信他,他可以和我更仔细的谈论我的保险事宜。说实在的,我需要不懈的努力才能达到相信他的地步。

写到这里,看到 albertyang的“ you need a plan”文章内容,觉得1-4条都挺好,为什么呢?原因在于,他把RRSP放在第一,第二条中提到EXTRA,第三条中只说LIFE INSURANCE,而不是UL不可,而且是 income earner of your family;第四条是针对有特殊需要的。唯一的疑问是,你说只有5%的加拿大人有舒适的退休生活。比例确实挺小的,但你是否知道有多少比例的人口在退休之前也没有舒适的生活,工资低,养家糊口负担重,你总不能让我们现在勒紧裤带,吃糠咽菜,就是为了将来有个舒适的退休生活吧。

有个朋友欢迎我加入反UL阵营,看来有和我同感的人并非个别人,都有阵营了吗。不知不觉的就加入战场了。

myexpert对各种保险的介绍没有错的地方,但同样的问题是,该说的不愿意说透,他们这些业内人士都是这样的,其实我上边的分析已经包括了这些内容。更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
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  • 枫下家园 / 理财投资税务 / 我为什么不买UNIVERSAL LIFE?(续)
    • My response 1: please read my previous posting "you need a plan, an overall plan, not just insurance or RRSP", the key point of the article is: it is the overall planning of how- your-money-is-spent that matters.
      I was away on business for a few days, "Hello" to all avid forum participant.

      Do you need life insurance? How much coverage do I need? What Life insurance products do I need? (term or UL, or WL or other derivative products like insurance against disability, critical illness, Long-term care cost, and insurance for presonal health). You won't be able to answer these questions unless you have done a thorough analysis of your current financial situation, and unless you have got an objective in mind about your future and/or future of your family.

      No two persons have the same need for insurance: a need analysis has to be done before you buy any insurance products. if you are not financial guru, you need to talk to financial advisor or agent. If you don't have faith in agent, then you need the service of Certified Financial Planner, independent of insurance companies.
      • 我从开始就想要个OVERALL PLAN,可见到了这么多顾问,他们说不了两句就集中精力谈UL了。 通过大家这样的努力,我们还是从ALBERTYANG这里挤出点东西来了。
        • 观点错误,1。保险agent专长在于保险计划,当然会以保险为主,。。。
          观点错误,
          1。保险agent专长在于保险计划,当然会以保险为主,再说保险和税务本来就是overall财务计划的主要部分。
          2。您的预期是什么?如果只是想了解一个大概的overall财务计划,那么可以找找保险agent或银行免费做一个,但重点必然会在保险计划,如果你找银行免费财务计划,重点必然会在基金投资计划。毕竟人家免费讲解是希望卖产品。
          • 观点错误,-----BOEING公司专长在制造飞机,天天给你打电话,要卖给你飞机,不买不行。
            • 不明白您的意思,我的point是:你不要指望能从"免费的"财务计划中得到什么。 "免费"是得不到一个严肃的计划的。
              • 我要的肯定是严肃的、OVERALL计划,花钱买服务,这事咱认可,只要物(服务)有所值,您可知道怎么找到这样的服务?
    • reposting of my previous article "you need a plan, an overall planning, not just insurance or RRSP"
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Only 5% of Canadian can really retire comforably, the remaining 95% will be struggling to get by. To be one of the 5%, you need to plan ahead:

      1. maximize your RRSP contribution (check your Notice of assessment, it tells you how much you can put into RRSP)
      a. work out an investment strategy by doing a thorough analysis of financial situation and your investment risk tolerance level. in a word, build a well-balanced portfolio.

      b. stick to your plan and contribute regularly (say bi-weekly) for an amount that you can handle (without draining necessary fund for your daily expenses). In long run, the average return on your contribution will be higher than if you throw in a lump sum to beat the RRSP contribution deadline (march 1 of every year) ; the underlying principle is called "dollar cost averaging".


      2. if you still have extra dollars every month, say $50, set up an annuity (only insurance company can provide annuity service). It works like this: every month you set aside $50 and let it accumulate in a pool of money managed by insurance company's investment team. You can choose just GIC type account (no risk at all). if you think you will retire in 30 years, set up 30-year annuity account, starting the 31st year, you will receive weeklyl, by-weekly or monthly cheque from insurance company to supplement your income at that time. such annuity service is not insurance, it is investment service offered by insurance company.

      3. prepare a will and power of attorney to make sure all the hard-earned money will be disposed of according to your will, otherwise, government will take over and dispose of your properties according to lengthy and tidious government procedure

      4. to lower possible health care cost, get all information necessary about OHIP (OHIP: Ontario Health Insurance Program sponsored by Ontario government so as to make the best use of it when you need it.

      4. purchase Life insurance for income earner of your family

      5. You may buy new products called Critical illness insurance and/or Long-term care insurance to minimize impact of becoming ill and lossing ability to take care of yourself. In detail, Criticial illness insurance pay a lump sum of money, say $100,000 to you when you are diagnosed to have one of 18 major illnesses. (CI and LTC insurances are designed to supplement OHIP coverage)

      6. Last and not least, keep yourself health! Get a good job or start your own business, it means steady stream of income, then all RRSP, mutual fund, Insurance, annuity will make sense.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • My response 2: Line by line response in detail
      本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛Your comment
      "albert yang说 TERM现在(20或30岁)是好的选择,保15万的月费17元,最大的缺点是65岁时RENEW的月费接近250元。我说 albert yang,你给的这些数字真够吓人的,翻出我的保单,我发现了如下的差别,我的年龄比你设定的大得多(40),保20万的月费是22元,还包括伤残的waiver,70-80岁时的月费是180元。这个年龄以后我没有特殊需要就不会买任何保险了。差别实在太大,你还是好好回顾你的数字吧,我们真的很胆小,经不起吓唬,还是你代理的CLARICA保险公司就这个数字,幸亏我没买此公司的,感谢上帝。"

      My response:

      I did not use any scare tactics when I mentioned that monthly premium for term policy could be as high as $250/m when you turn 65. It is an average amount charged by insurance companies in Canada. If you get anything cheaper, good for you.

      Your comment
      " albert yang还说,人过世了需要2-2。5万的安葬费和被保人法律手续费,再加上通货膨胀,得6。5万到8万。哈哈,又是一个用解决意外的手段解决意内的实例,同时够讲排场的,比活着的时候排场多了,甚至年富力强的青壮年时也没这么潇洒过,我还是选择别死了,好死不如赖活着。我怎么有个概念,平均一般的安葬费5-6千元,如果这个年龄没买任何保险,我自然就没有你所说的被保人法律手续费之类了。"

      My response:
      just take a look at the following fact

      FEES PAYABLE AT DEATH ONTARIO

      In addition to income taxes at death, here are other fees that can deplete
      the assets in your estate.

      1. Probate Fees

      Ontario's probate fees were successfully challenged in a recent Supreme Court case. As a result, the province introduced an Estate Administration Tax at the same level as the former probate fees.

      The value of your estate which passes under your will is subject to
      provincial fee/tax of $5 per $1,000 (or portion thereof) for the first
      $50,000, and $15 per $1,000 (or portion thereof) for the remaining value
      of the estate.

      2. Legal Fees

      Fees are levied by a solicitor for services performed in the settlement of
      estates. The fees levied will be based on the amount of time spent in
      the settlement of the estate.

      3. Executor Fees

      The executor, the person who carries out the instructions given in your
      will, is entitled to be paid. A professional executor is usually paid a
      maximum of 5% of the value of the estate under administration. Additional fees can be charged against the income of the estate if the estate must be held in trust for any length of time.

      4. Funeral Expenses

      Today, funeral costs range between $7,500 and $20,000.

      Total cost: add up 1 to 4

      Clarification:
      1. all these fees are incurred as a result of a person's death. If a person has no will, no assets, no money left when he or she passes away, then funeral expenses is the only one payable. However, many of us will have certain amount of accumulated wealth and assets to dispose of when we die. Then, there will be legal fees, executor's fees and probate fees.
      2. there is no fee collectable by insurance company when it pays out death benefit, which goes directly to cover the above-mentioned fees.

      Your comment:
      "albert yang又说,部分钱是保险,其余就去投资了。老生常谈,总是这道科,还记得我在原文里讲的保险成本吗,如果UL和TERM的可比成本一样,我何乐而不用它的优势呢,就是它的劣势大于它的优势,我才建议穷人只买TERM。比如保险应当20元,你让我交60元,拿40元去投资,当然是好事,可你硬说成本是40元,只留给我20元去投资,你就投资投资的说个没完没了,弄的大家云里雾里的就跟你走了"

      My response:
      It is a known fact that the cost for UL is higher than the one for term. the reason being: UL offers more flexibility in terms of policy administration (eg. you can have payment holiday when there is cash value; you can change the underlying investment components anytime. ) all these flexibilities means higher cost for insurance company to administer the policy. I don't recall telling you that "cost is $40 instead of $20". Nobody forces anybody to buy UL.

      Your comment:
      "albert yang也有说对的时候,他让我每年审查回顾自己的保险事项,谢谢你,我会做的,如果我的情况发生变化,我会进行必要的调整。另外, albert yang让我相信他,他可以和我更仔细的谈论我的保险事宜。说实在的,我需要不懈的努力才能达到相信他的地步。"

      My response:
      Yeah, do annual review of your current policy. As for trust, it is earned not asked for. Insurance (including UL) is good for many people, you don't have to trust me to acknowlege that.

      Your comment:
      唯一的疑问是,你说只有5%的加拿大人有舒适的退休生活。比例确实挺小的,但你是否知道有多少比例的人口在退休之前也没有舒适的生活,工资低,养家糊口负担重,你总不能让我们现在勒紧裤带,吃糠咽菜,就是为了将来有个舒适的退休生活吧。"

      my response:
      Buying life insurance and its derivative products is not a waste of money,
      Insurance is not a luxury, it is a necessity. It is part of our overall financial planning, if we don't plan ahead, we will never get out of "poverty". UL is more expensive than term, but UL offers more and longer coverage period. You decide which one is more suitable for you.

      My last comment:
      The scary thing is: many have to pay $30 to $40 for cable, $50 for a meal at restaurant, $100 to $300 for car insurance, $1000 for GICs,mutual fund or stocks, but they never find $20 to $100 for life insurance. Without having us and our family covered by life insurance and its derivative products, we are always at risk of lossing big time financially when uncontrollable events such as death, sickness, disability strike.

      Planning for the rainy days, that's life insurance all about.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
    • 请教JAMESCHEN6,你是买了哪一家公司的TERM产品呢?
      • Manulife, 你可以多比较几家。
    • 谢谢,正在考虑中。