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枫下拾英 / 心情随笔 / 两个水利专家
-kiwi(kiwi);
2001-11-24
{10790}
(#274057@0)
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三峡工程的真正秘密
-kiwi(kiwi);
2001-11-24
{12918}
(#274077@0)
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Thank you for post that website which i have been looking for several month.
-tropicalfish(想吃小笼的恐龙);
2001-12-16
(#300467@0)
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我觉得长江三峡应该上马。水能是清洁且可再生的能源,如果兴建相同容量的核电站或者火电站,前者如有闪失后果不堪设想,后者消不可再生耗资源,又污染环境。我国的水能,如果不建三峡,仅开发6%,而欧洲一些国家达90%左右。加拿大的电力,绝大部分都是水力发电。世界最大的水电站是巴西的伊泰普,其设备单机容量与三峡相似,所以我们并没有冒多大的险。世界上的大工程,上马之前总会有不少反对意见,但是如果我们有能力,决不要看着白花花的银子流到大海。人类在适应自然的同时,也要改造自然。
-pyramid(金字塔);
2001-11-24
{313}
(#274095@0)
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这种工程该不该上马,应该是急于风险分析的基础上。风险本身要分成两方面,一是consequence,二是frequency.比如象你讲的核电站的hazard,是属于high consequence和low frequency的event,就好比飞机在交通工具中的风险地位一样。这么大的工程风险分析的钱至少应该花几百万美金吧。我们无法得知三峡工程的决策依据是什么,但愿不要象 过去我在国内作项目一样,仅仅说是技术上可行,经济合理就可以了。
-hearts(hearts);
2001-11-24
{271}
(#274132@0)
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已经花在可研上的资金远不止几百万美金
-netee(netee);
2001-11-26
(#275572@0)
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可研和风险分析不是一吗事。可研主要是研究要花多少钱,技术可行不可行,投资回收期是多少等等。风险分析则是告诉你项目有没有不可接受的风险。我相信中国没有一个机构有能力完成这种风险分析,原因是没有风险的数据库。风险实际上就是数字化的概率X后果。专门做risk analysis 的机构应该有各种灾害发生频率的统计数据,和灾害后果的$ value。中国肯定不行,比如在西方国家,如果造成人员伤亡,这个$数将变得和天文数字一样,这样一来,整个风险就大了,但中国人命值多少钱?5万元RMB?再说中国以前从来都 不把风险当回事,谁去积累这些数据?中国和西方以后差距最大的方面就是这些需要知识积累的领域。目前中国急功近利的做法只能让这些差距越拉越大。这样下去的结果大概就是中国经济继续快速发展,大家手里的钱越来越多,但担惊受怕的事也会意想不到地多。
-hearts(hearts);
2001-11-26
{500}
(#276336@0)
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good point. 问题是有了有怎么样?
-killer(流血五步伏尸二人);
2001-11-26
(#276350@0)
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如果是讨论学术,就请你把论据搞得充分一点。水库/大坝的风险评估在西方也还是研究阶段,原因你说了,没有历史数据。中国缺乏,西方也缺乏。这跟人命值多少钱没关系。美国60,70年代倒是垮过几个,但拿那个来做风险评估,差得远。何况三峡这样的大坝。我倒是相信,西方还等着拿中国的数据呢。
西方科技先进不假,但也用不着如此妄自菲薄。
-pmer(pmer);
2001-11-26
{275}
(#276372@0)
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可研当然!=风险评估,但是风险评估应该是可研的一个重要部分。计算成本的时候,应该把风险成本考虑在内的。
-pmer(pmer);
2001-11-26
(#276390@0)
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Hydro energy is good, however, building a dam relates to too many factors, including natural and social factors.
-kiwi(kiwi);
2001-11-25
(#274665@0)
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SIGH......
-babyface(Tracy);
2001-11-24
(#274151@0)
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SIGH TOO
-bigrice(大米);
2001-11-25
(#274667@0)
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看了关于三峡的贴子,虽说平时对政治不关心,可也忍不住说几句,长江,孕育见证了中国几千年历史,却要被这帮混蛋硬生生拦腰切断,说句迷信的话,这等于断了它的灵性.
-satine(satine);
2001-11-26
{1054}
(#275525@0)
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长江上除了三峡,大大小小的梯级电站不下十好几座,岂不是被切了无数刀。世界上哪条大河没有建电站?支持建三峡的人也不都是傻瓜或自私,中国人半个世纪的梦想。还有国家大剧院,本来挺漂亮,总有人说三道四。
-pyramid(金字塔);
2001-11-26
(#276547@0)
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Please refer to #274077
-kiwi(kiwi);
2001-11-27
(#276841@0)
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你的话里太多想当然了
-netee(netee);
2001-11-27
(#276920@0)
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感慨。。。敬仰。。。无言
-lover4u(吃吃喝喝温哥华);
2001-11-26
(#275577@0)
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thanks for telling us, kiwi. i feel so sad about Professor Huang's death. I used to have an interview with him. but my report couldn't be publishedthank you for telling us, kiwi. i feel so sad about Professor Huang's death. I used to have an interview with him. but my report couldn't be published because it was forbidden in any newspaper about negative side of SanXia. the only thing i did was putting his name in the list of "Who are important to Chiese ShuiLi During recent 100 Years", a column edited by me, to show my respect. he is a real intellectual.
-unlimited(秋月无边);
2001-11-27
{416}
(#276871@0)
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If possible, could you share your report with us? Thanks!!!
-kiwi(kiwi);
2001-11-27
(#277044@0)
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i'd love to, but didn't bring it to canada. :-(
-unlimited(秋月无边);
2001-12-16
(#300422@0)
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don't blame yourself, you have done what you can do.One of my family friends was invited to vote for this project. He said nearly all of represnetative from their department had voted no which has never happened in history. and, all of his children are in abroad, he is old enough to be afraid of nothing. but, what else can he do?
-tropicalfish(想吃小笼的恐龙);
2001-12-16
{279}
(#300465@0)